Gay Youth Suicide and "The Miracle of Forgiveness"

If the LDS church cared about the high suicide risk of gay youth, I would think that they would address this issue in General Conference. Explain the risk of suicide, and what type of attitude and treatment add to this risk. Remind people that the mistreatment of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans-gender or Questioning (LGBTQ) is unacceptable. Explain what mistreatment IS. Explain that ignoring or belittling LGBTQ youth adds to the risk of suicide. Explain how we can prevent it.

Instead we are taught in the "Miracle of Forgiveness" that masturbation can lead to homosexuality ("the abominable and detestable crime against nature"). This flies in the face of the scientific evidence regarding homosexuality, and the book continues by suggesting that homosexuality can in turn lead to "seeking sexual satisfactions with animals." What a disgusting thing to suggest. What a terrible thing to teach LGBTQ youth. It is guaranteed to make them feel awful about themselves.

What other 'gems' can we find in the book "Miracle of Forgiveness"?

http://lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt (just search the text for "homosexuality" and you will find all these 'gems' I mention)

"All such deviations from normal, proper heterosexual relationships are not merely unnatural but wrong in the sight of God. Like adultery, incest, and bestiality they carried the death penalty under the Mosaic law. (Lev. 20:13, 15-16.) The law is less severe now, and so regrettably is the community's attitude to these grave sins--another evidence of the deterioration of society."

Oh really?? "REGRETTABLY"?? The community's attitude isn't so insanely intolerant that they don't STONE TO DEATH gay people anymore? ISN'T THAT SO REGRETTABLE?? WOW. Then people wonder why LGBTQ youth in the church have higher risk of suicide. THIS MAKES ME SICK.

The book goes on to call homosexuality 'evil', 'ugly', 'deviant', 'degenerate', and 'perverted'. How are we to make a moral judgment of this behavior? God said so. I agree that we should listen to an all powerful omnipotent being. Could you please prove his existence before we spread this intolerant message as absolute truth? After you prove his existence, can you please prove to me that YOUR version of him is correct? And finally, can you please prove to me that you are ACTUALLY in communication with him? Interestingly, the "Miracle of Forgiveness" has something to say on this topic as well:

"If God did not exist, such an unnatural and improper practice [homosexuality] might be viewed differently, but one could never justify it while accepting the holy scriptures."

Well, I am glad he admits it.

"...the seriousness of the sin of homosexuality is equal to or greater than that of fornication or adultery;"

So the sin of an 'unrepentant' homosexual is as bad as the "sin next to murder". Or greater. Just FYI.

Think of the consequences of this teaching. The murderer is almost universally hated. They should be locked up. Murderers should not be allowed to live in society. So when you compare that behavior with sexuality, and suggest that homosexuality is equal to or greater than heterosexual 'sin', we create a very difficult climate for homosexuals to live in. They will be afraid to be honest with everyone regarding their feelings. They will be avoided. No one likes a murderer right? How about an 'almost murderer'? How would YOU feel if you believed that you committed a crime against God that made you an 'almost murderer'?

Heres another great line from this wonderful book of tolerance:

Homosexuals are a "..problem in modern society..." and they need to be "...assisted back to normal living..."

So... question: Hows that working for ya? Oh wait, you mean the church USED to encourage homosexuals to marry in a heterosexual marriage, and then stopped this practice because it usually ended in divorce? An inspired leader made a mistake that tore families apart? REALLY? But how are we going to assist gay people "back to normal living"? Maybe, just MAYBE, they do not need to change. Maybe they were born that way, and forcing your own morals on their lives is causing emotional problems. Just a thought.

"...the glorious thing to remember is that it is curable."

This hollow and empty promise has been the cause of such wretched self torment that I can not even begin to imagine how much pain it has caused. Stuart Matis, a gay man who killed himself at the age of 32, killed himself in front of an LDS chapel. The last line of a Newsweek article that reported his suicide, said “The people who had prepared his body for burial were struck by the site of his knees, calloused from praying for an answer that never came.”

(http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/to_be_gay_and_mormon.shtml)

I recently spoke with Peter Danzig, an LDS family services counselor who was struck by the many gay clients who tried desperately to live their lives in accordance with LDS teachings. Eventually Peter spoke out publicly about these issues, and his temple recommend was immediately taken away. He was also told that if he ever talked about how he was punished for speaking out about these issues, he would be excommunicated. In order to remain a member he could not speak his conscience, and so he resigned from the church. There are many who have left the church when confronted with a family member who is gay. For many members of the church, this issue is a huge eye opener.

In the same section about homosexuality, we read:

"Our ills are usually of our own begetting."

So remember all you homosexuals out there! It's YOUR fault you are gay! It continues:

"The cure is as permanent as the individual makes it..."

So remember, when you try your best, and you are STILL gay, blame YOURSELF for failing.

"As with any other sin, forgiveness and recovery are dependent upon the offender's repentance, which
begins with recognition of the sin and acceptance of personal responsibility for it."

So, recognize that you are personally responsible for the way you were born? Great advice! Here's some more:

"Next in seriousness to nonrecognition of the sin is the attempt to justify oneself in this perversion. Many have been misinformed that they are powerless in the matter, not responsible for the tendency, and that 'God made them that way.' This is as untrue as any other of the diabolical lies Satan has concocted. It is blasphemy. Man is made in the image of God. Does the pervert think God to be 'that way'?"

He then goes on to name calling. He says anyone who believes that gay people were 'born that way' are "weaklings". Really? I am weak for understanding that the evidence doesn't agree with you?

"...while the number of divorces causes us to fear and admit it partly to be true, the principle of marriage
is right. Some have changed their desires and yearnings and have convinced themselves that they are
different and have no desire toward the opposite sex. This is quite understandable if the person has
permitted himself to move in the other direction and has lavished his interests, desires, affections, and
passions upon one of his own sex for long enough. It becomes ingrown. But let this individual repent of his
perversion, force himself to return to normal pursuits and interests and actions and friendships with the
opposite sex, and this normal pattern can become natural again."

HOLY CRAP. I am not even sure I want to comment on this one. Just disgusting. A recipe for broken homes and depression.

"The repenting one must avoid every person, place, thing or situation which could bring reminders of the
sordid past."

Did you have a group of gay friends that were a great support? Loved you, understood you and made you happy? Get rid of 'em.

"Bishops and stake and mission presidents must be alert and watchful and treat with kindness but firmness
all such offenders whose offenses come to their knowledge. In the careful and searching interviews the
leaders give, these weaknesses are likely to be revealed."

The term "witch hunt" comes to mind.

People were outraged at the remarks given at the last General Conference by Boyd K Packer. But I think this is a perfect reminder that even if they change the talk in the Ensign to make it a bit softer, even if they avoid speaking against gay rights at the pulpit, even if they were to apologize publicly, and even if they were to address gay suicide at General Conference, they still have "The Miracle of Forgiveness" being passed out to the general membership of the church, and it is still on their website. This is what the members are reading. It was written by a prophet of god. It is being ingrained in the minds of every faithful member during their private reading of this book and this attitude toward homosexuality is not going away without a fight.

To sum it all up? The Mormon church causes so much unnecessary pain, depression and suffering to the LGBTQ youth, that in the words of Spencer W. Kimball's "The Miracle of Forgiveness", I declare that it is an 'evil', 'ugly', 'deviant', detestable', 'degenerate', and 'perverted' organization.

Steven Hassan describes mind control

This video was very eye opening for me. He is speaking about Scientology but the things he says apply to Mormonism very well!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt1C3w9ea0M#t=70

“To go against the dominant thinking of most of the people you see every day, is perhaps the most difficult act of heroism you can perform.”
- Theodore H. White

Star Wars meets exmormonism.

This made me laugh so hard! And it is such a perfect example of Mormon apologetics as well! Click on the link below to see what I mean. Ignore the goofy picture, it really doesn't have to do with anything.

http://www.totryanewsword.com/2010/07/how-star-wars-destroyed-my-faith-in-god.html

Set your mind free.

I just watched this! So inspiring!

Avoid the truth if it makes Mormons look silly!

Miracle?

Hello!

I haven't made a blog post in a while! Today I remembered this amazing radio show I listened to, and I think more people need to hear it! It is 20 minutes of amazingness, describing the statistical likelihood of coincidences etc. This was an eye opener for me, and I realized I had been placing too much meaning on certain events that seemed unlikely. I found it quite entertaining as well!

God, where is your suggestion box?

I have an idea for God: go back in time and stop humanity from progressing, thereby preserving the desire for faith without the need for evidence. Poor guy is losing people fast with this whole science and internet thing! Double whammy!

Lets all agree that truth is more important than a good feeling.

I spoke with my home teacher the other day, and he actually admitted to me that a happy life was more important to him than truth.

Is it just me or does an admission of this kind raise a huge red flag in your mind?

I spoke with someone yesterday. I asked them why they believed. They told me they believed because they would be dead if it wasn't for the church (paraphrased of course). I asked if I could show her alternative possibilities as to why she is alive would she consider that possibility? Her IMMEDIATE reply was "NO!"

Again, is it just me or does an admission of this kind raise a huge red flag in your mind?

I spoke with my wife many moons ago (we are separated now because of my new understanding of reality: the church is not true). She admitted to me that "even if the church wasn't true, it is STILL a great way to live and I choose to live that way."

I really don't think I should have to point out why these positions regarding their beliefs will not allow for greater truths to be easily accepted when they conflict with your religious beliefs. But lets try anyways.


For Mormons to consider:
If you take the position that truth is less important than happiness, you are likely to throw out truth to retain happiness. In the process however, you will not experience how happy you will feel with ACTUAL truth. How can you possibly judge whether you will be happy knowing the truth or not? I suggest opening your mind and being honest with yourself to find first what truth is, then how happiness is achieved through that truth.

The Mormon Creed

Has anyone else seen this Mormon Creed before? From what I understand this became a popular slogan for Mormons when they were being persecuted for practicing polygamy. I first came across this slogan while on my mission. A member of the church had a huge church history library of church newspapers etc and on one of the old Mormon newspapers I spotted the "Mind Your Own Business" creed on the logo for the newspaper. I thought it was very odd at the time. The above picture used to hang in the Mormon Temple in Logan, Utah. Think about the hypocrisy of this! When the world looked scornfully at the church for doing something others considered morally reprehensible when it came to marriage, the church had no qualms declaring "Mind your own business! Saints will observe this!" But now, when it comes to gay rights and marriage, the table is turned, and they have no problem persecuting others and saints are NOT observing this creed. I also find it ironic that a church so keen on missionary work, could possibly approve of a creed that seems to suggest it is a virtue to stay out of other peoples business. How much more "in your business" can a church get than knocking on your door trying to convert you? I suppose they could always try to restrict your freedom to marry.

It's time for the church to take its own advice: Mind Your Own Business.

Smithbusters T-shirts!

http://www.smithbusters.com/SmithBusters/Apparel.html

Heck yes brothers and sisters, heck yes.

Forget tithing, lets save some lives!

101 reasons to doubt Mormonism.

http://packham.n4m.org/101.htm

I read through this list, and I wanted to share the ones that were interesting to me.


#6. The Book of Mormon says that wheat and barley were mainstay crops in ancient America. This is false. Only in Europe were those crops known and cultivated. And the actual staple crops grown in ancient America are never mentioned in the Book of Mormon: beans, sweet potatoes, squash, manioc, peppers, breadnut, fruits.

#8. Mormon scripture (D&C 84:86, 91) says that true missionaries from God will not rely on their own money or supplies ("purse or scrip") for support, and this will be a test to distinguish them from false missionaries. Modern Mormon missionaries now rely on themselves for support; i.e., they do "carry purse [and] scrip."

#16 Mormons waver on the ultimate authority for doctrine between the Bible, Mormon scriptures, statements of former Mormon prophets, statements of living Mormon prophets, and individual "revelation" - apparently depending on what they think gives them authority to believe what they want to believe. All of those sources are often mutually contradictory.

#34 The Book of Mormon portrays Lehi as a devout Jew, but he is completely ignorant of which tribe he belongs to (1 Nephi 5:14-16). This would be extremely unlikely.

#45 The D&C says (116, also 78:15 and 107:53-57) that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri, but the Book of Moses (PoGP, supposedly written by the prophet Moses, 3:10-16) says it was near the River Euphrates, which to Moses and his hearers meant the river in present-day Iraq.

#51 The "Word of Wisdom" (D&C 89:8) recommends using tobacco as a poultice for bruises, and for sick cattle. This has no medical basis in fact.

#54 A basic teaching of the Book of Mormon is that the American Indians are descendants of Israelites who arrived in America about 600 BC. Anthropologists have shown that there is no Hebrew ancestry in native Americans, who are rather descendants of immigrants from eastern Asia who came to America at least 15,000 years ago, long before Book of Mormon times.

#65 Many Mormons assert that the reason polygamy was practiced in early Utah was because there were not enough men to provide husbands for worthy women. This is historically false - Utah census records for the 19th century show that Utah had a considerable excess of men.

#66 The Book of Mormon (Ether 1:33 ff) portrays the Tower of Babel and the confusion of languages that occurred there as historical fact. No linguistic scholar accepts the Babel story as a historical event or as the origin of the world's different languages.

#72 Joseph Smith claimed to have seen in vision both the prophet Elijah and the prophet Elias (D&C 27:6-9). He apparently was unaware that in the Bible those two names refer to only one prophet (one is the Hebrew version of the name, the other Greek).

#74 "Zion's Camp" (the 1834 Mormon military expedition sent from Ohio to Missouri to protect Mormon settlers there) failed utterly, even though it was organized pursuant to revelations to Joseph Smith. One of the important factors causing its failure was that over one third of the army contracted cholera. Joseph Smith was at a loss as to how to deal with the disease, and God did not tell him how to prevent its spread (it could have been prevented if God had told Joseph Smith to boil all the drinking water).

#78 Joseph Smith produced an "inspired translation" of the Bible. It was not a translation in any sense, but rather his own corrections and additions to the King James translation, made without consulting any ancient texts or manuscripts. His changes are not supported by any non-Mormon biblical text scholarship, and in fact preserve many of the errors which biblical scholarship has since discovered in the King James version.

#90 Mormonism's view of gender is that there are only two (male and female). This is no longer considered scientifically accurate, since geneticists now recognize that some people are born with sexual traits of both genders, and surgery is needed to adjust the physical body of such a person to conform to one gender or the other. (See the website of the Intersex Society of North America.) If Mormon, such persons are denied entrance to Mormon temples, and thus are denied the possibility of attaining the highest degree of Mormon heaven.

#91 In Mormon theology "Lucifer" is the revealed name of Satan. Although many Christians also believe that, the idea is due to a mistaken translation of the passage in Isaiah (14:12; also Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 24:12), a mistake which occurred only when Isaiah was translated into Latin in the fourth century AD, long after the alleged date that Nephi was writing.

#108 The explanation in the Book of Mormon for writing the important records in Egyptian (Mormon 9:32-33) is that it would have required too much space on the precious gold plates to write in Hebrew. This does not make sense, since Hebrew is a very concise language, using consonants almost exclusively, compared to Egyptian, which required a large number of complex characters and would have been unsuitable for engraving in limited space.

The power of discernment.

My patriarchal blessing says I am blessed with the power of discernment... and I have discerned that the church is not true.

Read # 9. Nuff said.

Via: Online MBA

Life without fear?

Check out this link. It discusses the recent advances in neuroscience that could lead to 'artificial courage'. Think about the consequences of such a break through. As a Mormon, I was taught that this life is a test, and we are here for that purpose. What if we were able to turn on or off our petty human weaknesses at will? Inject our brain with courage. Increase our compassion and empathy. Turn off our sexual desires at whim. Decrease our anger by popping a pill. The meaning of sin would take on a whole new meaning. Religions would have to condemn the practice and look foolish, or embrace it and thereby make much of their doctrines obsolete. The idea of this life being a "test" to prove our worthiness to God would almost become meaningless.

For Mormons to consider:
In the world of the future, where we have total control over our biological weaknesses and our "natural man", will you be willing to admit that your religious ideas might possibly be wrong? And if you are willing to doubt your beliefs in this future scenario, would you be willing to consider you might be wrong as time marches on, and our technology brings us closer and closer to this realization? As your life continues, I hope you ponder upon the consequences of each new breakthrough in the field of genetics and biology and its relation to your faith.


So next time you get scared about speaking in front of a crowd, or you jump in fear of a barking dog, think about injecting your brain with some courage! And remember: this is only the beginning.

Dry statements of evidence have little power against emotion and anecdote.

Our minds have the ability to be manipulated. Many of the ways in which we have these biases have been documented.

For Mormons to consider:
In order to be honest with yourself, you might want to think about why God does not guard against documented psychologically manipulative methods. Why do leaders not teach against them in church? Instead they use them extensively and without shame. In my opinion this practice casts doubt on the entire foundation of the gospel. Why do you think the leaders use these psychologically manipulative techniques? If you have truth, wouldn't you want to guard against such dishonest tactics, to give more validity to your truth claims?

We can not honestly say we have found truth when "God" allows these manipulative techniques to be used in obtaining "converts". We might still feel justified in believing, but we can never be justified in being CERTAIN of our beliefs. If only evidence could have the same ability to bring emotion and meaning into our lives as the many religious claims do!

Here is an interesting article about why sensible people deny truth.

The future

"...a God based on willful acceptance of unsubstantiated ideas is indistinguishable from a god which exists only in fantasy."

Most religious folks would insist that a divine being is using all his awesome power to remain undetected. Factor in a bit of psychological deception, and presto, we understand why so many people believe in false religious ideas. The question becomes, why do they assume that they are NOT under any psychological deception with regards to their religious views?


For Mormons to consider:
Theres no evidence that God exists, and there IS evidence that religious adherents are employing documented psychological biases! If you are open to this possiblity, watch AntiCitizenX's videos on "Psychology of Belief" on his youtube channel. Very eye opening.


Many people have retained their beliefs by looking for evidence to support it. Creationists believe the world is under 10,000 years old and have found what they believe is evidence to support this idea. What they have really found though, is not evidence at all, but have found ways to IGNORE evidence by focusing on certain aspects of the evidence (or even focusing on complete falsehoods) in order to retain their belief. When in pursuit of knowledge, the scientific method was a way in which we could be rid of our ignorance and bias, and get at what is ACTUALLY true. The more details (his teachings, his plan, his form etc) someone claims to know about God, the more unlikely and irrational this unprovable divine being becomes, simply because there is no basis for which to make these detailed claims aside from spiritual experiences, which are known to give opposing truth claims and therefore unreliable.

For every Mormon that gains strength and happiness through their beliefs, there are hundreds of equally happy Catholics or Muslims. For every Latter-day Saint that feels the presence of God, there are hundreds of others with equally valid and powerful spiritual experiences that confirm opposing truths. I wonder if you doubt that this is true.


For mormons to consider:
I'm sure you don't believe that Mormons have a monopoly on spiritually constructed truth claims. Do you simply believe that any truth claim in opposition to your own was the result of an invisible evil being? Have you thoroughly considered that it could just be a natural psychological phenomenon?


Take evolution as an illustration of how humanity used to believe that "God did it" to explain the variety of life on earth simply because they did not know the natural process by which life evolved. The notion that God must exist because we have certain evidences or feelings, negates the perfectly plausible explanation that we are here by simply natural means, as yet unexplainable by the scientific method. We already have evolution as an example of how we need to be humble when approaching truth claims attributed to God. There is no need for divine power to be involved with evolution. We have not proven or dis proven God's existence based on evidence, but we cannot simply rely on faulty methods to give us an answer that generally make us feel good and quenches our desire for answers. It is honorable to admit "I don't know".

People have debated this topic for centuries. The difference is that now, in the age of reason and science, one side is beginning to lose.


For Mormons to consider:
You may think that the church is growing rapidly, but ask yourlself where? Is it growing in the developed and educated world? The mental gymnastics that come naturally to those who trust their feelings above science, are carefully being stripped away by the advance of the information age.


Mormon missionaries can now knock on someones door, and after 30 seconds the potential convert can search online and find information that the church only recently allowed black members to hold certain priveleges. These and other red flags allow the rational person of today who is not deeply indoctrinated with documented psychological manipulation techniques and biases (that the church blatantly employs), to say to themselves in all honesty, "this simply doesn't add up."


It matters what we believe. If everyone in the world believes there is a divine plan in place, then how could we possibly thwart God's plan? We could not. Therefore, if we destroy our environment, then in the end we can all be rest assured that this was God's plan all along. Or we might believe that the earth will be renewed as the LDS church teaches, and this places less significance on the environment.


For Mormons to consider:
Sometimes people will say "the church is still a good way to live even if it isn't true". I ask you which is most important to a member of the church: the environment, or missionary work? Then ask yourself if your beliefs have an impact on everyone's future if the church is not true.


We can ignore certain aspects of scientific discovery, rationalizing away our pursuit of longer life spans for example, because it is not God's plan for us humans to live forever. What a shame that would be! These important questions all have significant repercussions when we believe that God is in control of our destiny, or that we humans alone are in control. Without a divine plan, it can be our plan. We can have hope that we can reduce suffering, end war, be rid of disease and increase happiness here in this life, all without feeling like we are going against God's plan. I am grateful that I do not live in anticipation of the next life, which helps me to emphasize the importance of this life.


For Mormons to consider:
As a believer in many things, I will change my beliefs anytime I am given sufficient evidence to support new ideas. I hope you can resolve to do the same, and remove the special protected status of your testimony that acts as a wall in the mind that usually sits between ones religious views and reality. I am being blunt because I believe in the importance of truth, and the impact it has on everyones future.


“I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion, as organized in its Churches, has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world.”
-Bertrand Russell

Bias BINGO!!!

Freakin amazing!

Google vs Prayer

My brother just conducted an experiment, LOL:

I just conducted an experiment to see how Google and Prayer compare. After praying I only got my own thoughts, so after a LONG pause I concluded the answer is in the scriptures and I resorted to Moses on this one. Here is my question:

"What should we do for women that survive war?"

-----------
Prayer Method: (Search time: 8 mins)

Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, ...which came from the battle. And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?...Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him (ie the virgins), keep alive for yourselves. (Num 31:14-18)
-----------

-----------
Google Method: (Search time: 0.5 mins)

#1 Search Result:

As each woman engages in a multi-phase process of recovery and rehabilitation, she opens a window of opportunity presented by the end of conflict to help improve the rights, freedoms and status of women in her country. As women who go through our program assume leadership positions in their villages, actively participate in the reconstruction of their communities, build civil society, start businesses, train other women and serve as role models, they become active citizens who can help to establish lasting peace and stability.
-----------

What do you think? Which method wins here?

This guy knows where its at!

Not everything applies to the LDS faith in this video, but most of it does! This video shares a lot with my views!

Two thumbs up!

Tim Minchin is My Hero.

Best line in the poem below:

"Science adjusts its beliefs based on what's observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."

Our intuition leading to truth.

Does an idea have validity when it is confirmed by your intuition (or "the spirit")?

I think so. Our subconscious mind picks up on all sorts of things we are not aware of. This is a must see in understanding how impressionable our minds are. Click here to watch.

When it comes to our subconscious mind aiding us in our day to day decisions, I have no argument. But when it comes to explaining our existence and God's will? Our mind picks up on so much we don't understand, and therefore we cannot assume our intuition gets it right every time. If we are going to trust our intuition enough to base our entire lives around "feelings" or "spiritual experiences", we need to have a good idea about how our subconscious mind works, including the many biases and logical fallacies many humans fall into because of it.

When scientific evidence meets a strong belief, the evidence usually loses.

When I was Mormon I developed a wonderful talent of explaining away every criticism that might sabotage my beliefs. Any piece of evidence that might weaken my theological position was immediately scrutinized more than anything else in my life. For those who were not members of the church you may not quite be grasping the literalness of what I am saying. When I say immediately, that is what I mean. When I mean everything, I mean everything. This kind of behavior is important in order to support a world view that is unsupported. Lets give a few examples shall we?

I am living the gospel and not happy. Step one: Tell yourself you are not really living the gospel well enough, because it is a perfect divine system that brings happiness. I am OBVIOUSLY the problem here!!

I heard that wine is actually beneficial for those who drink it. Step one: Ask yourself how you can make this new discovery wrong. Step two: If unable to make this wrong, ignore it, and find ways to disprove it as you go along in life. Step three: One day I came across an article saying that drinking daily alcoholic beverages such as wine, etc, may increase the risk of throat cancer or breast cancer! PERFECT! I had my new information to completely dismiss this worrisome and 'threatening' knowledge that might weaken my religious views. I should point out that I am illustrating the process I used to retain my beliefs, not that wine is good or bad.

I heard that Utah uses the most anti depressants of any other state in the US. Step one: Ask yourself how you can make this new discovery mean that the church is true. Step two: Convince yourself that, since the church is true and people are tempted by the devil, you would expect the GREATEST amount of temptation to occur in Utah! Thus the greater instances of depressed people, account for the truthfulness of the church! PERFECT!

Someone left the church. Step one: Ask yourself 'what was their bad reason for leaving the truth?' Step two: Identify the most likely sinful behavior this person may have been involved with, or which doctrine they misunderstood etc. Step three: Once identified, laugh at their ridiculousness of leaving the church for such unfounded reasons and commit to never losing your testimony for similar wickedness.

Unfavorable church history: Step one: go to fairlds.org and see what they have to say about it. Accept their answer as the most correct, since they are obviously honest Mormons defending the truth. Step two: If the answer is unsatisfactory, try to ignore it by reminding yourself that the church had many enemies in its infancy and that the history of the church could have been altered to make the church look bad, and that it is really difficult to have solid information about what REALLY happened way back then. Step three: Remind yourself that the church is true not based on solid facts, but because you had an amazing feeling directly from God. Try to ignore that this mental process could be duplicated with any religious doctrine, and confirm any belief desired.

Learning that the temple endowments were ripped off of the masonic rituals. Step one: Recover from the shock. Why has no one told me this until my mission?? Step two: Frantically try to figure out how the church can still be true. Step three: Convince yourself that either the masonic rituals were based off of the original temple endowment from Jesus Christ's ministry, or that the temple endowment specifics ceremony) were not that important, just the covenants themselves were important (anotherwords allowing the all powerful God to rip off the masonic rituals just for for the sake of having a ceremony mixed in with the covenants). Funny how two unfounded answers is better than one true one. It always felt like when I can find more than one "answer" on fairlds.org it was a more solid answer, which makes no sense whatsoever- unless of course you factor in the REASON you are looking for an answer, (any answer) which is to "retain your belief system."

I watched a creationist video showing the "evidence" that the earth was not millions of years old, it was only thousands! Step one: Thats so cool! Just like the bible says!? Accept new belief as probably true. (to my credit I did wonder about it and didn't completely accept it as truth but I look back on how silly it was that I took it without really thinking for myself, it was just something I thought held validity because it supported my belief system)

Do any other members remember thinking in these ways? Give me some other examples in the comments!

Oh! And just for good measure, here is the best one, because it was the one that finally broke me out of this unreasonable cycle of convincing myself of something that wasn't true.

There are plausible explanations for spiritual experiences that do not require the existence of a divine being. Step one: Whatever, I believe anyway. Step two: Hmmmmm. Step three: Crap.


Here is a great video I recently saw, and if you think about patriarchal blessings while watching it, you will probably enjoy it more.

But think about those who are sincerely convinced that psychic powers are real. Just like in this video, they might be amazed and totally convinced because they actually experienced it! But the experience was misinterpreted! Luckily the video was made in order to EDUCATE people on this matter. But what if there was no education. The person continues on with their life amazed at the psychic abilities of Darren brown. How can you convince this person they were duped? It would be very difficult. And when it comes to a personal feeling that you attribute to God himself?? The difficulty level in convincing someone of more plausible alternative explanations increases dramatically (especially when coupled with weekly/daily "strengthening your testimony" exercises, a community of like minded friends, the habitual demonizing of those who have left the faith and a multitude of other practices that will aid you in retaining a completely unfounded belief).

A friend of mine said this:
"Which path is likely to be more deceived. The one that claims absolute truth and must make evidence conform to it, or the one that is open to the possibility of being wrong, and willing to incorporate compelling evidence into the belief set."

I am free.

We live in a free country. I may disagree with Mormons, or with religion in general. But this is simply barbaric. I can hardly believe the intolerance! I am grateful to be free from this type of oppression. I am grateful to be free from religion.

I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Only lies need monthly testimonial reminders to stay true.

I don't need to "strengthen my testimony" about gravity. It's just true. I don't need to "protect my testimony" of 1 + 1= 2. It's just a fact. If something were untrue, then I can see how "strengthening your testimony" or "protecting" that falsehood would be important in order to maintain that belief. Monthly testimony meeting to reinforce beliefs? Oh what a great idea!

The topic of religion is a very touchy subject. Feelings get hurt so easily, because they want to hold onto this false idea so badly that it is annoying to have it challenged.

"We are offending people but we are also telling them that they are wrong to be offended. Physicists aren't offended when their view of physics is disproved or challenged, thats not the way rational minds operate when they are really trying to get at whats true in the world. Religions purport to be representing reality and yet there is this peevish and tribal and ultimately dangerous reflexive response to having these ideas challenged."
-Sam Harris

Alternative Medicine.

It's very interesting how many false ideas I had of the world growing up. I recently found a website http://www.quackwatch.org/ and it describes why so many practices of alternative medicine have no basis for reality. I browsed the website quickly, and I certainly didn't critically examine every claim- but that is the wonderful thing about the world today! We can carefully analyze any idea we find and come to a greater understanding of its truth. One of the saddest problems the world faces today is the lack of teaching our growing generations the simple process of critical thinking. Here is a wonderful video I came across on the subject:



Great video.

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons."
-Why People Believe Weird Things by Michael Shermer, founder and editor of Skeptic magazine

Christ committed suicide?

If I were sitting on a bench, and heavy rain started pouring, and a flood commences.. I would say anyone who sits there and drowns without trying to save themselves is committing suicide. Especially if they had a button that could be pressed that magically stopped the flood from happening. I guess I just want to hear your thoughts: if Christ did nothing to stop his death, but had the power to do so, was he not committing suicide? And if he did commit suicide, wouldn't this be considered a sin, and thus make Christs final moments no longer sinless and nullify the doctrine of atonement? Even if you don't consider it suicide, I would still contend that INACTION is considered a sin in LDS doctrine, and Christ is clearly guilty of this in the Biblical narrative. Anyway just some thoughts... what do you think?

Why I left the church.

Hey!



This is an email conversation I had with an old friend of mine that was concerned about me, and wrote that I "know" deep down that the church is true. I wrote this in response, trying to help them understand why I left the church. So here it is, I will just leave the emails the way they were, minus the names, so hopefully it explains my thoughts on why I left. Without further ado:


________________________________________________________________________

Hi!

Don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to destroy your faith. I want to give you my reasoning behind my beliefs, and please excuse my terrible grammar :)

You say I KNOW better than that, deep down, I KNOW. I would insist that you are wrong.

Truth from God through "feelings" is where my first real doubts began to creep in. Consider the following:

Experiments done with the mind:
- http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-03/bending-morality-magnetism
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet

I find it interesting that our brains are able to be manipulated so easily. The above experiments may not be perfect examples, but I'm sure you would agree that our minds can trick us. The placebo effect is a good example of direct physical changes brought on by nothing more than belief. When we want something to be true, and exercise our "faith" and focus on removing doubt, we are playing into a psychological certainty: our minds should bring us to believe more firmly in what we put our energy and faith towards. As we subject ourselves to this type of "faith" experiment, we would also expect a higher probability of supernatural experiences such as visions, feelings of spiritual confirmation etc.

Now, after saying that, I think it is clear that our fallible human minds and feelings cannot bring us to absolute truth - not without solid evidence, no matter how hard we try. And I come to this conclusion without bringing in the even more confusing belief that there exists a devil deliberately deceiving everyone.

I used to rely on spiritual confirmations as a way to build my testimony. I began to question these spiritual promptings and seriously ask myself whether they were of God or myself. I eventually came to the conclusion that it was myself. Upon leaving, I began to embrace agnosticism and eventually atheism. During this period I remember listening to an audio program (listen to it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qixXRkCNrtE ) where the lady said something to the effect of "that is when I realized there was no God" and at that moment, I felt the same spiritual confirmation feeling that I used to believe was literally God speaking truth to my soul (the "Spirit" in Mormon lingo of course). At this point I couldn't help but laugh at how ridiculous it was that I had given so much meaning to that feeling of the "Spirit"- after all, God certainly wasn't trying to tell me he did not exist. I now believe that this feeling is an emotional connection to the things you are experiencing and nothing more.

Another story for you: My brother began to doubt the truth of the LDS church as well. He went about things in a very terrific way and I applaud his critical thinking. For example he conducted a simple experiment where he prayed to Santa Clause. Thats right. He tried to remove all doubt, and have as much faith as possible in Santa for a period of time to see what would happen. The result? He had a spiritual confirmation that Santa did indeed exist. Incredible? I don't think so. I contend that it is just a natural phenomenon: THE EFFECT OF A FOCUSED MIND EXPECTING AND BELIEVING IN SOMETHING.


Another Story for you: My brother oldest brother was the first to leave the church. He wrote about his experiences, and I will quote it here:

"The Root of My Testimony
But before I tell the Mentinah story, let me share a little background. In all of my spiritual wanderings,
I had always been able to rely on what I call the “root of my testimony.” Simply put, I believed that
through direct communication with God, and as a receiver of divine inspiration, I had privileged access
to truth. It was this privileged access that gave me assurance that, in spite of physical evidence to the
contrary, my faith and my worldview were well founded.
Years earlier, while serving as a Mormon missionary, I had yearned to know for certain that the faith of
my parents and the message I transmitted at that time to the Taiwanese people was true. I had prayed
in earnest, hoping that I would receive a divine confirmation that my efforts were valiant—and more
importantly, that my message was in fact true. For several agonizing weeks I prayed many times each day
without effect. I was starting to feel discouraged—maybe even depressed—but at this time when I was
starting to lose hope, I happened upon a video clip sponsored by the church that enthralled me called
How Rare a Possession. I watched a particular scene in which an Italian convert to the church bore his
testimony that the Book of Mormon is the missing history alluded to by Jesus in the bible (“Other sheep
have I which are not of this fold. . .” John 10:16). I felt a strong, almost overpowering sensation course
through my body, and a sense of peace that I had been longing for.
In conjunction with the witness of this Italian convert, I felt assured that I had found what I was
looking for—I could be certain that my religion was true. The line of reasoning I was using here had
been established early in my life. I had been taught that the “Book of Mormon is the keystone of our
religion,” and so it followed logically that if that book is true, then so is the church and its doctrines.
Moreover, I was told that it was not necessary that I know the founder of the church personally to
determine that he was a man of God. Since I had in my hands the actual book that he had translated
by the power of God (the Book of Mormon), I could through divine inspiration know that the church’s
founder, Joseph Smith, was himself an honest man and called of God.

The Mentinah Archives
Through an on-line LDS discussion forum (rogerkyoung.com), I
discovered in July of 2006 a strange assortment of books that purported to be, like the Book of Mormon,
a history of the early civilizations here in North America. Collectively called the Mentinah Archives, it
was claimed that these books were authored by descendents of Hagoth, a Book of Mormon character. A
half-dozen men or so, led by a Mr. Philip Landis, translated the books.
My curiosity was piqued. Didn’t the Book of Mormon itself say that there exist other as-yet undiscovered
books that testify of Jesus Christ? Hadn’t the early prophets of the church told us that there is yet much
more to be revealed when the world is ready? In the back of my mind, I thought that even a more recent
prophet—SpencerW. Kimball perhaps?—had prophesied that if the members of the church would honor
the Book of Mormon by reading it more, the Lord would reveal more scripture to us. And hadn’t President
Hinckley just challenged the entire church to read the Book of Mormon by December of last year? Maybe
this challenge was meant to prepare us for new scripture! With these thoughts in mind, I downloaded
and read the Book of Hagoth.
What I found was beautiful! Skeptical at first, I applied the tests of authenticity that I was familiar
with. Did it testify of Jesus Christ (Book of Mormon, Moroni 7:15-17)? Yes. Did it feel right (Doctrine
and Covenants 9:8)? Yes. Did the Holy Ghost manifest the truth of it (Moroni 10:5)? Yes, I felt the
Holy Ghost. Remarkably, this new book I had found seemed to be true! Upon discovering this fact, I
remember kneeling down, alone in my living room, and offering up a prayer of thanks to God that he
would be so merciful and kind as to give us new knowledge. The Book of Hagoth testified of Jesus Christ,
and did so beautifully.
Apprised of its spiritual worth, I now began to be curious about its translators and its origins. Who
were these people, and how did they come across the original manuscripts? Were the manuscripts or
plates available for public viewing? I scoured the Internet to find more information. What I discovered,
however, changed me in unanticipated ways.
As it turned out, the translator of the Mentinah Archives, Philip Landis, is a felon in two states (Montana
and Idaho). He had been caught in various schemes to defraud the people of those states during certain
“business ventures”. My first reaction was one of leniency—after all, Joseph Smith, while innocent, was
accused of all sorts of crimes and thrown in jail on spurious charges, right? But not so for Mr. Landis. He
is on public record as a self-admitted liar (you can read the court proceedings for his two counts of felony
online). How could this man be chosen of God, like Joseph Smith, to translate such an important holy
record? And it turns out that the “original manuscripts” are not available for public viewing because
the translators do not deem it necessary to prove their authenticity to anyone—let each person ask God,
they say, whether or not their work is true.
I became convinced that the Mentinah Archives were fraudulent, and for a time I let it all escape from
my mind. But they left a bad taste in my spiritual mouth that, in conjunction with two or three other
experiences, led me to a deep-seated crisis of faith. With regard to the Book of Hagoth, I wondered, how
could the Spirit have led me astray? Was I so spiritually “out of tune” that I could not detect such a
terribly fraudulent work? (To be “in tune with the Spirit” is a common LDS phrase that makes use of the
analogy between a radio receptor and our so-called spiritual receptor). Was the devil deceiving me when
I received such spiritually assuring confirmations that the Archives were true? If my spiritual sense had
given me cause to believe Mr. Landis was an honest man, what of Joseph Smith? And worst of all, if I
had received a positive spiritual confirmation of a false Book of Hagoth, could I have received a positive
spiritual confirmation of a false Book of Mormon?"

Another story for you: A family member had a powerful experience while driving home in his car. He felt the spirit had witnessed to him in a powerful way that his wife had died. He felt like he said goodbye to her (in his mind) and he was devastated and in tears. He came home, and was surprised to see that his trust in the spirit had led him astray: his wife walked through the door as usual. This and other things led him to question the validity of his spiritual experiences and eventually he left the church. You may read his LDS exit story by going to the following address: http://mrbright-side.blogspot.com/2010/03/my-lds-exit-story.html

As Mormons, we are required to find truth through this terribly flawed system of the "Spirit". Missionaries all over the world tell people to read and then pray, and if they get a feeling, it is God telling them the church is true. I would argue that instead of a supernatural invincible super hero with magic powers, we can explain the very same feelings through simple and natural means as I said above: this is just the effect of a focused mind expecting and believing in something.

Feelings and emotions, no matter how sure you are of the source of those feelings, have no basis for evidence and truth. This is why scienctists would scoff at anyone who claims to know something without evidence. In your mind I assume the feelings you have ARE your evidence, and want everyone to experience the same thing so that they will see the truth as well.

If your position is correct, LDS people have the truth. This would be the most important thing for everyone to listen to and hear. I am sure that is why you would try to "spread the gospel". Over 150 million copies of the Book of Mormon have been printed (this means only about 2% of the total population could ever have received a copy of the Book of Mormon). Less that 0.2% of the entire world have come to know this most important truth for themselves. I would expect you believe that every religion has SOME truth in it, and that this is your explanation for any spiritual experiences that occur outside of the LDS faith. But it isn't as easy as that I'm afraid. Spiritual experiences confirming specific doctrines that are in DIRECT OPPOSITION to the church happen all the time. In these cases you must admit

1.that these experiences are caused by the devil

2.that these experiences were fake

3.that these experiences were brought on by their own fallible mind

Now we must think of a way to determine which it is. I'm sure we would both agree that if your spiritual experiences are not from God, then it was most likely nothing more than yourself. And obviously you are convinced it IS the spirit of God. But this is exactly why I don't trust the "spirit", because many people claim to have great spiritual experiences that contradict each other. Not only that, but the church teaches a perfect formula of how to deceive yourself.

Consider this: If you were muslim, you might ask someone to have faith. Pray to know the truth. Cast out all doubt, have faith in Muhammed and he will show you the truth of Allah. I seriously doubt that you can show me how this person would NOT eventually be a practicing Muslim if he continues with this type of indoctrination. What if he didn't receive an answer right away? Well lets turn straight to the current LDS missionary guide book Preach My Gospel, page 95 near the top reads

"Believe that God will answer your prayers. Recognize that God’s thoughts are not your thoughts, and trust God to answer your prayers in His own way and in His own time."

Just replace "God" with "Allah" and you have a great formula here. All this non-muslim needs is more faith in Allah, and more time and prayer. He needs to pray

"sincerely, with real intent, and with 'all the energy of heart'. Effective prayer requires great effort" (Preach My Gospel, pg 94 near the top)

Do you see where this type of behavior will lead you? It is an equation for self deception. Replace "Mormon" with "Muslim" or "Jehovahs Witness", "Catholic", whatever you want! It will provide you with a supposed "testimony" of that particular religion.

I remember talking to a member of an LDS break-off (actually a break-off of a break-off) while on my mission. She shared a story of her vision of Christ and the feelings of joy and peace that associated her vision. Christ told her the Utah Mormon church was not true, but that the LDS missionaries would serve the Lords purpose "in His own due time". Here is a perfect example of spiritual feelings that directly contradict your LDS faith. But what would you tell her? She needs to know she is wrong and you are right! How would you let her know she has been deceived? She felt the spirit of love and joy! These feelings match the definition of the spirit perfectly! Think, how can you help her to see your side of things? It wasn't God was it? I think we can both agree there. But think about it: it would be extremely difficult to get through to her. Maybe as difficult as yourself seeing my side of things. She is hardly the only one in the world with experiences or feelings like this. Now put your own experiences in perspective. You feel something powerful. I will accept that. I would not deny it, neither would you. But the question remains: was it really what you think it was? Think about it.


Now that I have rambled on about the spirit, I should wrap things up. Looking back I can see the many mental gymnastics I used to place on myself. Being free from the mental gymnastics is such an incredible feeling and I would never want to go back. The world simply makes more sense.

I hope you understand my reasoning behind my beliefs, and hopefully you can see members who have left the church with different eyes of understanding.

I would also like to remind you that this was by no means a simple decision. It was gradual and very reluctant. I have lost my wife and daughter. Heaven was something I was looking forward to. But I can not pretend to believe something I do not. I take the good I have learned from the church and reject the bad. I am excited about life and my future.

I have plenty more to say but I shouldn't take more of your time. In fact I will have to congratulate you for reading this far if you really have! Good job! haha

Your friend,

xxxxxxxxxxxx


_____________________________________________________________________________

Her reply:

Everything that you have written is very clearly thought out and obviously you have spent a lot of time coming to this conclusion. I understand where you get all of these feelings. I sometimes wonder myself if I am feeling things because I want to or because I am actually feeling the "spirit". There is a very fuzzy line there because as you said "our brains are able to be manipulated so easily." However, that is not to say that many of the things we feel are in fact true and testified to us through the Spirit. I believe that what you are feeling makes complete sense, however is it possible that you have manipulated your own brain into believing something that makes more sense to your logical brain? You are completely entitled to your beliefs. I still think of you as a dear friend and I wish you the most happiness in your life no matter what you believe; but I do think that you owe yourself more soul searching. You have been on a mission and you have been through the temple, you have more knowledge than many. It is one thing to doubt your beliefs and it is another to completely deny God. You are a very smart man, you always have been and it is one quality that I so admire in you. I just think that you are wrong, how could we all exist without a God? Mormon beliefs aside, how can you deny God?
Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxxxxx

_____________________________________________________________________________


Thanks for your thoughts!

And thanks for being a friend.

No offense or anything, but I don't think saying "I owe it to myself to do more soul searching" without knowing how much "soul searching" I have done is a bit.. impolite. I think I could re-read it as saying "you should do more soul searching because you haven't come to the same conclusion as I have". Correct me if I'm wrong.

I am grateful I was able to go on a mission and go through the temple. These things helped me to realize the many faulty assumptions religions claim. The question "How could we all exist without a God" is answered simply: we exist through natural means. People used to use a similar form of argument before they knew of evolution and natural selection: "look at all the variety and beauty of life- it shows there must be a designer!" But now we know how the simple process of evolution through natural selection occurs and it does not require the supernatural intervention of a divine being. There is simply no evidence of a divine being. If there is, then I will re-evaluate. But you do not believe in Zeus. And I wouldn't expect you to. You are almost as atheist as I am- I just go one God further (or 3 Gods further, depending on how you want to define the Godhead in the LDS faith). Once you understand why you have rejected the idea of Zeus, you will understand why I reject your God. If I had a personal experience with Zeus, or was brought up in ancient Greece, it may be a little more difficult to reject Zeus as a God. You have experienced feelings connected to your beliefs, and you may have a difficult time rejecting them. That sounds perfectly normal to me, and perhaps letting go of your faith will not be best for you. It might be too difficult. If I were to believe in some sort of God, what would be the point? There are plenty of reasons someone could tell me why a belief in God might be helpful in life. But none of these reasons are exclusive to a belief in God or exclusive to any particular religion. Think about the God you believe in: A super powerful being who has taken great pains to remain completely hidden. How convenient for you. Can you imagine a world in which no God exists? What do you think the differences would be? I say a world in which no God exists would look just like this one. A place where people are desperately looking for an answer to why they are here, but everyone comes up with a different answer. A world where evolution and natural selection have created things that have great beauty and also terrible ugliness. A world where people used to think that natural disasters were because of the wrath of God. Disease was thought to be people possessed by the devil. If you truly want to go on believing that your feelings are true messages of God and everyone else has got it wrong, I'm afraid I will have to disagree. The reason the line is "fuzzy" as you say, is because it is just an emotional connection with our experiences. I will agree with you though that our emotions (or what you call the "spirit") can be "true" in the sense that our subconscious mind picks up all sorts of details our conscious mind does not, and more often, if we go with our "gut" or our intuition, we will get things right. But that does not mean that God is telling us doctrinal truths of the universe. If I were to "test out" every religious idea as the Book of Mormon asks in Alma 32, (experiment on the word etc), I would waste my entire life and not even get close to testing out all the different ideas out there in the world. So, what if there are other faiths better than your own? You may never know. Being on the outside of religion looking in, makes things a lot clearer. I can see how Scientologists refuse other religions because of the brain washing effects of their cult. I can see how people who believe in creationism (earth is less than 10,000 years old) are fighting against the evidence that is so obvious. I can see how Muslims hold onto the Qur'an with blind faith and no solid foundation for actual truth. And yes, I can see how Mormons and Christians hold onto false texts supposedly written by an all powerful God, with all their inconsistencies and morally despicable teachings. You do know that the Mormon church discriminated harshly against the black people of the world? A perfect example of how refreshing it is to no longer have to do mental gymnastics such as "it was just Gods plan" "God had cursed them, and finally lifted the curse". Think about it! Not too long ago the church would not allow a black member of the church to get his temple endowment. You just finished e-mailing me telling me how I have "been through the temple" and hinted at how important you feel this is. Your church excluded black people from these "great blessings". I know you have either pushed it out of your mind and not thought of it, or come up with some sort of satisfying explanation for this. Let me tell you right now, that this practice was without question, immoral, wrong, discriminatory, racist, hypocritical and unloving. And I'm sure that the next time you go to the temple, if anyone were to try to keep a worthy temple recommend holding black person out of the temple simply for being black, your moral compass would go berserk. It may be a shocking thing for me to say, but if you feel racism is wrong, then congratulations, you just showed yourself to be morally superior to the Mormon church. What about women in the church? You are not old enough to know much history about this. Ask your mom when she was first allowed to pray in sacrament meeting. It was in 1978. In 1980 the general presidents of the Relief Society, Young Women and Primary were invited to sit on the stand during general conference and in 1984 women spoke in general conference for the first time since 1930. Again, without reservation, I declare these practices of Male domination and superiority to be morally corrupt. I think the church in its practice to discriminate against women and treat them the way they do is not honorable or moral. Teaching a woman that her only place is in the house and to have children, and to submit all other dreams and hopes of the future to this ideal is disgusting to me. Family is wonderful, don't get me wrong. But the man and the woman, together. And equally. You might feel the fuzzies during general conference when the leaders tell you that the "woman is God’s supreme creation". But just remember that God also thought women were so wonderful, that they shouldn't pray in sacrament meeting, and were considered as property in the old testament. They were also treated very poorly in the days of polygamy in the church. Can you imagine your husband taking a second wife because "the Lord commanded him?".

And that is just scraping the surface! I would like you to picture someone handing you a beautiful baby. Lets say a group of children are under your care. Now you must take a knife and slit all their throats. They are screaming and running away from you in tears covered with blood. Disgusting thought isn't it? Why do you think it seems like such a terrible thing to think about? It's simply morally corrupt. Obviously so. But God thought that was a great way to kill his enemies in the Old testament. Wholesale slaughter of men women and children. Even the animals. If you think for a second that this holy book should be the foundation of your moral values, you need to think again. It teaches of mass-murders, raping, pillaging, plundering, slavery, child abuse and more. I think if a man told you he was a prophet of God, and told you to kill children, you would be praiseworthy in declaring this mans philosophy corrupt, evil and untrue. And I would say: amen.

And think of the inconsistencies. Noahs flood? another great example of God killing children. Were the children guilty? But that aside, consider the following:

The flood has left no geological evidence! The amount of excrement on the ark would have been phenomenal. Food for the animals, including their special diets would need to be preserved somehow. Following the flood there would be no food for the herbivores. Taking care of the animals would require many more than 8 people aboard the ark. The list goes on and on. If you want to see a comprehensive look at this subject you can go here: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

Now if they want to go ahead and teach their children that there was a world wide flood, when the evidence is overwhelmingly in opposition to this story, then they are simply willfully ignorant, and teaching their children lies. Correct me if I'm wrong.

People like answers to questions. I have come to accept that we do not have all the answers. Someone might say "You have no idea how the universe began!" and I would say, "yes, you are right". There is no shame in this. I would say the opposite, that it is honorable to admit we do not know when there is insufficient evidence, instead of claiming to know something there is no evidence for, and therefor satisfying our desire for answers. I believe the question, "if there is no God, then why are we here?" is a flawed question, that assumes we are here for a reason. I am fine with no reason, other than the reason I make myself. My reason is to enjoy life, be happy and make the world better for the future.

Anyway, I think I rambled on for too long again. Oh well! Take care!

xxxxxxxxxx


_____________________________________________________________________________

her reply:

I'm sorry for being impolite. I didn't mean to be. I hope you are happy in your life. I do not agree with the things you are saying at all, but to each his own.
xxxxxxx

_____________________________________________________________________________


So thats the end of the emails! She had nothing to rebute what I said, perhaps she was afraid of losing her testimony. That is exactly why people stay in the church. People believe their testimonies are the most precious thing in the world, so if it is in danger, you want to protect it. In other words, avoid looking at things that might point to any evidence that doesn't support the church. This means that some LDS (if not most) are willfully ignorant in order to retain their faith. Apperently my friend here didn't think the "saviors" counsel of leaving the 99 to go after the one lost sheep was important enough for her time. She replied with barely a sentence after I poured out my heart to her. I am apparently not worth her time to try and "save" me. Although in reading the email conversations again, I suppose in her defense I might have come across a bit too harsh. I was just telling it the way I saw it, but I can see how she might have thought it was rude. Anyway, I guess I am just a bit shocked at her lack of reply to all the things I wrote her. But I suppose it is to be expected. Thanks for reading!