Hey!
This is an email conversation I had with an old friend of mine that was concerned about me, and wrote that I "know" deep down that the church is true. I wrote this in response, trying to help them understand why I left the church. So here it is, I will just leave the emails the way they were, minus the names, so hopefully it explains my thoughts on why I left. Without further ado:
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Hi!
Don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to destroy your faith. I want to give you my reasoning behind my beliefs, and please excuse my terrible grammar :)
You say I KNOW better than that, deep down, I KNOW. I would insist that you are wrong.
Truth from God through "feelings" is where my first real doubts began to creep in. Consider the following:
Experiments done with the mind:
- http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-03/bending-morality-magnetism
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
I find it interesting that our brains are able to be manipulated so easily. The above experiments may not be perfect examples, but I'm sure you would agree that our minds can trick us. The placebo effect is a good example of direct physical changes brought on by nothing more than belief. When we want something to be true, and exercise our "faith" and focus on removing doubt, we are playing into a psychological certainty: our minds should bring us to believe more firmly in what we put our energy and faith towards. As we subject ourselves to this type of "faith" experiment, we would also expect a higher probability of supernatural experiences such as visions, feelings of spiritual confirmation etc.
Now, after saying that, I think it is clear that our fallible human minds and feelings cannot bring us to absolute truth - not without solid evidence, no matter how hard we try. And I come to this conclusion without bringing in the even more confusing belief that there exists a devil deliberately deceiving everyone.
I used to rely on spiritual confirmations as a way to build my testimony. I began to question these spiritual promptings and seriously ask myself whether they were of God or myself. I eventually came to the conclusion that it was myself. Upon leaving, I began to embrace agnosticism and eventually atheism. During this period I remember listening to an audio program (listen to it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qixXRkCNrtE ) where the lady said something to the effect of "that is when I realized there was no God" and at that moment, I felt the same spiritual confirmation feeling that I used to believe was literally God speaking truth to my soul (the "Spirit" in Mormon lingo of course). At this point I couldn't help but laugh at how ridiculous it was that I had given so much meaning to that feeling of the "Spirit"- after all, God certainly wasn't trying to tell me he did not exist. I now believe that this feeling is an emotional connection to the things you are experiencing and nothing more.
Another story for you: My brother began to doubt the truth of the LDS church as well. He went about things in a very terrific way and I applaud his critical thinking. For example he conducted a simple experiment where he prayed to Santa Clause. Thats right. He tried to remove all doubt, and have as much faith as possible in Santa for a period of time to see what would happen. The result? He had a spiritual confirmation that Santa did indeed exist. Incredible? I don't think so. I contend that it is just a natural phenomenon: THE EFFECT OF A FOCUSED MIND EXPECTING AND BELIEVING IN SOMETHING.
Another Story for you: My brother oldest brother was the first to leave the church. He wrote about his experiences, and I will quote it here:
"The Root of My Testimony
But before I tell the Mentinah story, let me share a little background. In all of my spiritual wanderings,
I had always been able to rely on what I call the “root of my testimony.” Simply put, I believed that
through direct communication with God, and as a receiver of divine inspiration, I had privileged access
to truth. It was this privileged access that gave me assurance that, in spite of physical evidence to the
contrary, my faith and my worldview were well founded.
Years earlier, while serving as a Mormon missionary, I had yearned to know for certain that the faith of
my parents and the message I transmitted at that time to the Taiwanese people was true. I had prayed
in earnest, hoping that I would receive a divine confirmation that my efforts were valiant—and more
importantly, that my message was in fact true. For several agonizing weeks I prayed many times each day
without effect. I was starting to feel discouraged—maybe even depressed—but at this time when I was
starting to lose hope, I happened upon a video clip sponsored by the church that enthralled me called
How Rare a Possession. I watched a particular scene in which an Italian convert to the church bore his
testimony that the Book of Mormon is the missing history alluded to by Jesus in the bible (“Other sheep
have I which are not of this fold. . .” John 10:16). I felt a strong, almost overpowering sensation course
through my body, and a sense of peace that I had been longing for.
In conjunction with the witness of this Italian convert, I felt assured that I had found what I was
looking for—I could be certain that my religion was true. The line of reasoning I was using here had
been established early in my life. I had been taught that the “Book of Mormon is the keystone of our
religion,” and so it followed logically that if that book is true, then so is the church and its doctrines.
Moreover, I was told that it was not necessary that I know the founder of the church personally to
determine that he was a man of God. Since I had in my hands the actual book that he had translated
by the power of God (the Book of Mormon), I could through divine inspiration know that the church’s
founder, Joseph Smith, was himself an honest man and called of God.
The Mentinah Archives
Through an on-line LDS discussion forum (rogerkyoung.com), I
discovered in July of 2006 a strange assortment of books that purported to be, like the Book of Mormon,
a history of the early civilizations here in North America. Collectively called the Mentinah Archives, it
was claimed that these books were authored by descendents of Hagoth, a Book of Mormon character. A
half-dozen men or so, led by a Mr. Philip Landis, translated the books.
My curiosity was piqued. Didn’t the Book of Mormon itself say that there exist other as-yet undiscovered
books that testify of Jesus Christ? Hadn’t the early prophets of the church told us that there is yet much
more to be revealed when the world is ready? In the back of my mind, I thought that even a more recent
prophet—SpencerW. Kimball perhaps?—had prophesied that if the members of the church would honor
the Book of Mormon by reading it more, the Lord would reveal more scripture to us. And hadn’t President
Hinckley just challenged the entire church to read the Book of Mormon by December of last year? Maybe
this challenge was meant to prepare us for new scripture! With these thoughts in mind, I downloaded
and read the Book of Hagoth.
What I found was beautiful! Skeptical at first, I applied the tests of authenticity that I was familiar
with. Did it testify of Jesus Christ (Book of Mormon, Moroni 7:15-17)? Yes. Did it feel right (Doctrine
and Covenants 9:8)? Yes. Did the Holy Ghost manifest the truth of it (Moroni 10:5)? Yes, I felt the
Holy Ghost. Remarkably, this new book I had found seemed to be true! Upon discovering this fact, I
remember kneeling down, alone in my living room, and offering up a prayer of thanks to God that he
would be so merciful and kind as to give us new knowledge. The Book of Hagoth testified of Jesus Christ,
and did so beautifully.
Apprised of its spiritual worth, I now began to be curious about its translators and its origins. Who
were these people, and how did they come across the original manuscripts? Were the manuscripts or
plates available for public viewing? I scoured the Internet to find more information. What I discovered,
however, changed me in unanticipated ways.
As it turned out, the translator of the Mentinah Archives, Philip Landis, is a felon in two states (Montana
and Idaho). He had been caught in various schemes to defraud the people of those states during certain
“business ventures”. My first reaction was one of leniency—after all, Joseph Smith, while innocent, was
accused of all sorts of crimes and thrown in jail on spurious charges, right? But not so for Mr. Landis. He
is on public record as a self-admitted liar (you can read the court proceedings for his two counts of felony
online). How could this man be chosen of God, like Joseph Smith, to translate such an important holy
record? And it turns out that the “original manuscripts” are not available for public viewing because
the translators do not deem it necessary to prove their authenticity to anyone—let each person ask God,
they say, whether or not their work is true.
I became convinced that the Mentinah Archives were fraudulent, and for a time I let it all escape from
my mind. But they left a bad taste in my spiritual mouth that, in conjunction with two or three other
experiences, led me to a deep-seated crisis of faith. With regard to the Book of Hagoth, I wondered, how
could the Spirit have led me astray? Was I so spiritually “out of tune” that I could not detect such a
terribly fraudulent work? (To be “in tune with the Spirit” is a common LDS phrase that makes use of the
analogy between a radio receptor and our so-called spiritual receptor). Was the devil deceiving me when
I received such spiritually assuring confirmations that the Archives were true? If my spiritual sense had
given me cause to believe Mr. Landis was an honest man, what of Joseph Smith? And worst of all, if I
had received a positive spiritual confirmation of a false Book of Hagoth, could I have received a positive
spiritual confirmation of a false Book of Mormon?"
Another story for you: A family member had a powerful experience while driving home in his car. He felt the spirit had witnessed to him in a powerful way that his wife had died. He felt like he said goodbye to her (in his mind) and he was devastated and in tears. He came home, and was surprised to see that his trust in the spirit had led him astray: his wife walked through the door as usual. This and other things led him to question the validity of his spiritual experiences and eventually he left the church. You may read his LDS exit story by going to the following address: http://mrbright-side.blogspot.com/2010/03/my-lds-exit-story.html
As Mormons, we are required to find truth through this terribly flawed system of the "Spirit". Missionaries all over the world tell people to read and then pray, and if they get a feeling, it is God telling them the church is true. I would argue that instead of a supernatural invincible super hero with magic powers, we can explain the very same feelings through simple and natural means as I said above: this is just the effect of a focused mind expecting and believing in something.
Feelings and emotions, no matter how sure you are of the source of those feelings, have no basis for evidence and truth. This is why scienctists would scoff at anyone who claims to know something without evidence. In your mind I assume the feelings you have ARE your evidence, and want everyone to experience the same thing so that they will see the truth as well.
If your position is correct, LDS people have the truth. This would be the most important thing for everyone to listen to and hear. I am sure that is why you would try to "spread the gospel". Over 150 million copies of the Book of Mormon have been printed (this means only about 2% of the total population could ever have received a copy of the Book of Mormon). Less that 0.2% of the entire world have come to know this most important truth for themselves. I would expect you believe that every religion has SOME truth in it, and that this is your explanation for any spiritual experiences that occur outside of the LDS faith. But it isn't as easy as that I'm afraid. Spiritual experiences confirming specific doctrines that are in DIRECT OPPOSITION to the church happen all the time. In these cases you must admit
1.that these experiences are caused by the devil
2.that these experiences were fake
3.that these experiences were brought on by their own fallible mind
Now we must think of a way to determine which it is. I'm sure we would both agree that if your spiritual experiences are not from God, then it was most likely nothing more than yourself. And obviously you are convinced it IS the spirit of God. But this is exactly why I don't trust the "spirit", because many people claim to have great spiritual experiences that contradict each other. Not only that, but the church teaches a perfect formula of how to deceive yourself.
Consider this: If you were muslim, you might ask someone to have faith. Pray to know the truth. Cast out all doubt, have faith in Muhammed and he will show you the truth of Allah. I seriously doubt that you can show me how this person would NOT eventually be a practicing Muslim if he continues with this type of indoctrination. What if he didn't receive an answer right away? Well lets turn straight to the current LDS missionary guide book Preach My Gospel, page 95 near the top reads
"Believe that God will answer your prayers. Recognize that God’s thoughts are not your thoughts, and trust God to answer your prayers in His own way and in His own time."
Just replace "God" with "Allah" and you have a great formula here. All this non-muslim needs is more faith in Allah, and more time and prayer. He needs to pray
"sincerely, with real intent, and with 'all the energy of heart'. Effective prayer requires great effort" (Preach My Gospel, pg 94 near the top)
Do you see where this type of behavior will lead you? It is an equation for self deception. Replace "Mormon" with "Muslim" or "Jehovahs Witness", "Catholic", whatever you want! It will provide you with a supposed "testimony" of that particular religion.
I remember talking to a member of an LDS break-off (actually a break-off of a break-off) while on my mission. She shared a story of her vision of Christ and the feelings of joy and peace that associated her vision. Christ told her the Utah Mormon church was not true, but that the LDS missionaries would serve the Lords purpose "in His own due time". Here is a perfect example of spiritual feelings that directly contradict your LDS faith. But what would you tell her? She needs to know she is wrong and you are right! How would you let her know she has been deceived? She felt the spirit of love and joy! These feelings match the definition of the spirit perfectly! Think, how can you help her to see your side of things? It wasn't God was it? I think we can both agree there. But think about it: it would be extremely difficult to get through to her. Maybe as difficult as yourself seeing my side of things. She is hardly the only one in the world with experiences or feelings like this. Now put your own experiences in perspective. You feel something powerful. I will accept that. I would not deny it, neither would you. But the question remains: was it really what you think it was? Think about it.
Now that I have rambled on about the spirit, I should wrap things up. Looking back I can see the many mental gymnastics I used to place on myself. Being free from the mental gymnastics is such an incredible feeling and I would never want to go back. The world simply makes more sense.
I hope you understand my reasoning behind my beliefs, and hopefully you can see members who have left the church with different eyes of understanding.
I would also like to remind you that this was by no means a simple decision. It was gradual and very reluctant. I have lost my wife and daughter. Heaven was something I was looking forward to. But I can not pretend to believe something I do not. I take the good I have learned from the church and reject the bad. I am excited about life and my future.
I have plenty more to say but I shouldn't take more of your time. In fact I will have to congratulate you for reading this far if you really have! Good job! haha
Your friend,
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Her reply:
Everything that you have written is very clearly thought out and obviously you have spent a lot of time coming to this conclusion. I understand where you get all of these feelings. I sometimes wonder myself if I am feeling things because I want to or because I am actually feeling the "spirit". There is a very fuzzy line there because as you said "our brains are able to be manipulated so easily." However, that is not to say that many of the things we feel are in fact true and testified to us through the Spirit. I believe that what you are feeling makes complete sense, however is it possible that you have manipulated your own brain into believing something that makes more sense to your logical brain? You are completely entitled to your beliefs. I still think of you as a dear friend and I wish you the most happiness in your life no matter what you believe; but I do think that you owe yourself more soul searching. You have been on a mission and you have been through the temple, you have more knowledge than many. It is one thing to doubt your beliefs and it is another to completely deny God. You are a very smart man, you always have been and it is one quality that I so admire in you. I just think that you are wrong, how could we all exist without a God? Mormon beliefs aside, how can you deny God?
Sincerely,
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Thanks for your thoughts!
And thanks for being a friend.
No offense or anything, but I don't think saying "I owe it to myself to do more soul searching" without knowing how much "soul searching" I have done is a bit.. impolite. I think I could re-read it as saying "you should do more soul searching because you haven't come to the same conclusion as I have". Correct me if I'm wrong.
I am grateful I was able to go on a mission and go through the temple. These things helped me to realize the many faulty assumptions religions claim. The question "How could we all exist without a God" is answered simply: we exist through natural means. People used to use a similar form of argument before they knew of evolution and natural selection: "look at all the variety and beauty of life- it shows there must be a designer!" But now we know how the simple process of evolution through natural selection occurs and it does not require the supernatural intervention of a divine being. There is simply no evidence of a divine being. If there is, then I will re-evaluate. But you do not believe in Zeus. And I wouldn't expect you to. You are almost as atheist as I am- I just go one God further (or 3 Gods further, depending on how you want to define the Godhead in the LDS faith). Once you understand why you have rejected the idea of Zeus, you will understand why I reject your God. If I had a personal experience with Zeus, or was brought up in ancient Greece, it may be a little more difficult to reject Zeus as a God. You have experienced feelings connected to your beliefs, and you may have a difficult time rejecting them. That sounds perfectly normal to me, and perhaps letting go of your faith will not be best for you. It might be too difficult. If I were to believe in some sort of God, what would be the point? There are plenty of reasons someone could tell me why a belief in God might be helpful in life. But none of these reasons are exclusive to a belief in God or exclusive to any particular religion. Think about the God you believe in: A super powerful being who has taken great pains to remain completely hidden. How convenient for you. Can you imagine a world in which no God exists? What do you think the differences would be? I say a world in which no God exists would look just like this one. A place where people are desperately looking for an answer to why they are here, but everyone comes up with a different answer. A world where evolution and natural selection have created things that have great beauty and also terrible ugliness. A world where people used to think that natural disasters were because of the wrath of God. Disease was thought to be people possessed by the devil. If you truly want to go on believing that your feelings are true messages of God and everyone else has got it wrong, I'm afraid I will have to disagree. The reason the line is "fuzzy" as you say, is because it is just an emotional connection with our experiences. I will agree with you though that our emotions (or what you call the "spirit") can be "true" in the sense that our subconscious mind picks up all sorts of details our conscious mind does not, and more often, if we go with our "gut" or our intuition, we will get things right. But that does not mean that God is telling us doctrinal truths of the universe. If I were to "test out" every religious idea as the Book of Mormon asks in Alma 32, (experiment on the word etc), I would waste my entire life and not even get close to testing out all the different ideas out there in the world. So, what if there are other faiths better than your own? You may never know. Being on the outside of religion looking in, makes things a lot clearer. I can see how Scientologists refuse other religions because of the brain washing effects of their cult. I can see how people who believe in creationism (earth is less than 10,000 years old) are fighting against the evidence that is so obvious. I can see how Muslims hold onto the Qur'an with blind faith and no solid foundation for actual truth. And yes, I can see how Mormons and Christians hold onto false texts supposedly written by an all powerful God, with all their inconsistencies and morally despicable teachings. You do know that the Mormon church discriminated harshly against the black people of the world? A perfect example of how refreshing it is to no longer have to do mental gymnastics such as "it was just Gods plan" "God had cursed them, and finally lifted the curse". Think about it! Not too long ago the church would not allow a black member of the church to get his temple endowment. You just finished e-mailing me telling me how I have "been through the temple" and hinted at how important you feel this is. Your church excluded black people from these "great blessings". I know you have either pushed it out of your mind and not thought of it, or come up with some sort of satisfying explanation for this. Let me tell you right now, that this practice was without question, immoral, wrong, discriminatory, racist, hypocritical and unloving. And I'm sure that the next time you go to the temple, if anyone were to try to keep a worthy temple recommend holding black person out of the temple simply for being black, your moral compass would go berserk. It may be a shocking thing for me to say, but if you feel racism is wrong, then congratulations, you just showed yourself to be morally superior to the Mormon church. What about women in the church? You are not old enough to know much history about this. Ask your mom when she was first allowed to pray in sacrament meeting. It was in 1978. In 1980 the general presidents of the Relief Society, Young Women and Primary were invited to sit on the stand during general conference and in 1984 women spoke in general conference for the first time since 1930. Again, without reservation, I declare these practices of Male domination and superiority to be morally corrupt. I think the church in its practice to discriminate against women and treat them the way they do is not honorable or moral. Teaching a woman that her only place is in the house and to have children, and to submit all other dreams and hopes of the future to this ideal is disgusting to me. Family is wonderful, don't get me wrong. But the man and the woman, together. And equally. You might feel the fuzzies during general conference when the leaders tell you that the "woman is God’s supreme creation". But just remember that God also thought women were so wonderful, that they shouldn't pray in sacrament meeting, and were considered as property in the old testament. They were also treated very poorly in the days of polygamy in the church. Can you imagine your husband taking a second wife because "the Lord commanded him?".
And that is just scraping the surface! I would like you to picture someone handing you a beautiful baby. Lets say a group of children are under your care. Now you must take a knife and slit all their throats. They are screaming and running away from you in tears covered with blood. Disgusting thought isn't it? Why do you think it seems like such a terrible thing to think about? It's simply morally corrupt. Obviously so. But God thought that was a great way to kill his enemies in the Old testament. Wholesale slaughter of men women and children. Even the animals. If you think for a second that this holy book should be the foundation of your moral values, you need to think again. It teaches of mass-murders, raping, pillaging, plundering, slavery, child abuse and more. I think if a man told you he was a prophet of God, and told you to kill children, you would be praiseworthy in declaring this mans philosophy corrupt, evil and untrue. And I would say: amen.
And think of the inconsistencies. Noahs flood? another great example of God killing children. Were the children guilty? But that aside, consider the following:
The flood has left no geological evidence! The amount of excrement on the ark would have been phenomenal. Food for the animals, including their special diets would need to be preserved somehow. Following the flood there would be no food for the herbivores. Taking care of the animals would require many more than 8 people aboard the ark. The list goes on and on. If you want to see a comprehensive look at this subject you can go here: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
Now if they want to go ahead and teach their children that there was a world wide flood, when the evidence is overwhelmingly in opposition to this story, then they are simply willfully ignorant, and teaching their children lies. Correct me if I'm wrong.
People like answers to questions. I have come to accept that we do not have all the answers. Someone might say "You have no idea how the universe began!" and I would say, "yes, you are right". There is no shame in this. I would say the opposite, that it is honorable to admit we do not know when there is insufficient evidence, instead of claiming to know something there is no evidence for, and therefor satisfying our desire for answers. I believe the question, "if there is no God, then why are we here?" is a flawed question, that assumes we are here for a reason. I am fine with no reason, other than the reason I make myself. My reason is to enjoy life, be happy and make the world better for the future.
Anyway, I think I rambled on for too long again. Oh well! Take care!
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her reply:
I'm sorry for being impolite. I didn't mean to be. I hope you are happy in your life. I do not agree with the things you are saying at all, but to each his own.
xxxxxxx
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So thats the end of the emails! She had nothing to rebute what I said, perhaps she was afraid of losing her testimony. That is exactly why people stay in the church. People believe their testimonies are the most precious thing in the world, so if it is in danger, you want to protect it. In other words, avoid looking at things that might point to any evidence that doesn't support the church. This means that some LDS (if not most) are willfully ignorant in order to retain their faith. Apperently my friend here didn't think the "saviors" counsel of leaving the 99 to go after the one lost sheep was important enough for her time. She replied with barely a sentence after I poured out my heart to her. I am apparently not worth her time to try and "save" me. Although in reading the email conversations again, I suppose in her defense I might have come across a bit too harsh. I was just telling it the way I saw it, but I can see how she might have thought it was rude. Anyway, I guess I am just a bit shocked at her lack of reply to all the things I wrote her. But I suppose it is to be expected. Thanks for reading!
